I just need him to be more understanding.
I need him to appreciate me for who I am.
I need him to help out around the house.
I need him to be more romantic.
I need him to be a spiritual leader in our home.
I need him to pursue me.
We hear a lot about needs nowadays, don't we? If we listen to the mainstream media, we come to feel as though we are always experiencing a deficit of something. And whatever that something is, there is usually a person who is supposed to be fulfilling that need. When it comes to our marriages, that person = our husband.
I think deep down we know that we aren't supposed to be seeking fulfillment from our husband. We are supposed to be seeking fulfillment in Christ. So I'm not headed in that direction with this discussion of needs. Here's my question:
Is every "need" really a need?
Short answer? No.
In fact, I think we have very few actual, God-created needs. Ed Welch argues that Scripture indicates our only true needs are 1) biological necessities such as food and water, 2) spiritual needs, such as the need to be saved from our sin and taught by Christ, and 3) a need for other people in our lives to help us accomplish God's purpose for our life. (When People Are Big and God is Small, p.163-164)
For the most part, what we call "needs" are actually "desires". We can accurately say things like:
I want him to be more understanding.
I want him to appreciate me for who I am.
I want him to help out around the house.
I want him to be more romantic.
I want him to be the spiritual leader in our home.
I want him to pursue me.
Not a popular thought, I realize. Brad Bigney writes:
Once you start calling something that you want your spouse or your kids to do a need, your expectations immediately kick in. After all, if something is a need, then the people closest to you - who say they love you - ought to help you to get it, right? (Gospel Treason, p. 72)Bigney takes issue with how many of the best-selling marriage books classify our desires as needs, saying that one particular book "should be titled His Desires/Her Desires, subtitled Your Spouse Will Never Meet Your Desires, So Shut Up and Get Over It and Get to Know God". Rather, he says that "both husband wife could be helped far more by studying God and what it means to die to self, rather than studying their top needs that really aren't needs, but desires clutched in a closed fist (Gospel Treason, p.73)."
All of those things I listed above are good things and probably essential to a healthy marriage, but do we really need them? When it comes down to it, many of those things I think I need just make me feel happier and feed my selfish desire to be catered to.
Do I need Dave to make sound financial decisions? No, I just want him to because it means my life is more secure.
Do I need Dave to help out around the house? No, but I would like him to because it makes my life more comfortable.
Do I need Dave to pursue me? No, but it sure makes me feel more significant if he does.
Do I need him to appreciate me for who I am? No, but it helps my own personal insecurities take a back seat if he thinks all these awesome things about me.
None of those desires are wrong. It's good to want wise financial choices to be made and it's fine to want our husband to appreciate and pursue us. But it's just that - a want. And if we aren't careful, those desires can quickly turn into idols, into qualities that we absolutely must have in order to thrive.
Agree? Disagree? What do you think our true needs are?
Ready. Set. Go. Discuss.
While I tend to agree with you in the spiritual world, I think the nuts and bolts of real life where the rubber hits the road allows for more than just those three needs. Thankfully God realizes this. While I think in general this is right, I know for my wife security (this takes many forms) is truly a need. I know for me, sex with my wife is truly a need. The rest are desires, some of them highly desired maybe and a couple so close you might call them needs....but without those two things we both become wrecks very, very quickly. For both of us, no matter how much faith we bring to the table and exercise we can't erase those two things from being needs. No amount of prayer, fasting, just being & walking in God, etc. take those off the need table for us...
ReplyDeleteI'm going to disagree with you that either sex or security is a true need. Here's why...anytime that we become "wrecks" because we are not receiving something we think we need, I would say that that attitude demonstrates that a desire has crossed the line into idolatry. Is it a good thing to want sex in a marriage? Absolutely. Is it fine to want to feel secure (financially, emotionally, etc)? Yes. But if I find myself falling apart, sinning, or unstable because I am not receiving it, I have put that desire before God. I often feel that I "need" my home to run in an orderly fashion and that I "need" my kids to obey and get along in order to have peace. Do I become a wreck if I'm looking for order and peace in that situation? Yep. Because it isn't a need. It's a desire. I WANT my kids to obey. I WANT them to get along. I WANT order. It all makes my life more comfortable and removes the mess and struggle...for the moment. I will never find satisfaction in having obedient children or a home that runs smoothly. The same thing goes for security. Our security comes ONLY from Christ. ANYTHING else will disappoint. Financial security, security that we are loved by our husbands, security in knowing that we can be vulnerable...that is all a temporal security and it can all end. "Needing" security from anything in this life always has the potential to end in disappointment. And again, if sex is "needed" to remove temptation and increase self-respect, and want to please a spouse, it is the wrong savior. Does having sex regularly decrease temptation? Does it make a man feel respected? Does it motivate some husbands to want to love and serve their wives? Sure. But God has provided a way out of temptation in Christ, our identity is in Christ and we are called to obedience no matter the circumstances. If we seek to replace God in the area of sex, we have crossed into idolatry, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. And I agree that Christian marriage books have missed the mark here, and I know that some of them impacted my first years of marriage for the worse. I've learned that I NEED to learn to die to self and follow Christ. I need to love my neighbor (my closest neighbor being my husband). I need to treat others better than myself. I need to rely on Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI would tend to agree. There have been a few times in my life when I thought and even said out loud, "I cannot live like this"! Guess what? Here I am with much happiness between then and now. This is a radical way of thinking but I think you are on the right track from my experience.
ReplyDeleteLet me also add that I talked to my husband about the "sex being a need" thing before I offered my opinion on that particular area.
ReplyDeleteI hear what you are saying, trust me I do. I'm no scholar but I do believe until we have crossed over to be with him, yes indeed he not only has allowed us to have certain needs He has blessed them. I think this is one of those topics you can believe in your head all day long but in practice in real life I have found real people do indeed have real earthly needs. Sorry, I've served in missions, been in full time service in the pastorate, broken up knife fights in the street between homeless guys, taken the shirt off my back to given it to someone who needed it, visited the jailed in jail, handed my last dollar to starving kids, etc....all the things Christ talks about those who are walking in him will do. I've been considered "godly" for what it is worth...but I can't get around that one need above no matter how hard I've tried and trust me there was a long period there were I very much had to try. And no amount of prayer, fasting or just being in God's spirit changed that. So if you want to tell me otherwise that is fine but you'll be shorting yourself and your husband if you don't realize in real life, it's okay to have real needs. This is one of those things that I think if you can bealive it all day long in your head if you so desire but if you live like that you will be miserable and you will also make those around you miserable. In other words, there has to be balance you can go to far to the spiritual side of things and become legalistic in your thinking the other way. Think phariseees vs. Jesus. Did Jesus not meet the needs of those he ministered to or did he just tell them as long as you have food and water you just need to be more spiritual?
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with my wife having a couple basic needs...I find great joy in meeting them. I believe I would be doing her a disservice if I did not realize she had them...and I think this is dangerous territory. After all how many wives do you know that say, "Ah, he does NEED sex"....well Paul teaches quite differently I believe. I haven't had coffee yet this morning so to be honest I'm having a tough time coming up with a "how many husbands say....put I'm sure there's plenty to pick from. In other words you and I can fight it out or you can realize the for most people the needs and a few of the wants the line is so blurry you can preach this to them all you want but all you aren't to be helping them. Now I'm not saying there won't be times where a "need" is taken from us and w e have to learn to live without it....as not only are there people living without food and water today and learning how to trust the Lord in the middle of it. There are also people who cannot see God's face, how the circumstances of life have made it impossible to have the needs of the two spiritual needs you mentioned meet today at this time.
I don't particularly want to "fight it out" with you, but I do disagree to some extent with the examples that you've given. I have no reason to believe you aren't "godly" and all those things you've done to serve others are wonderful, but godly people are not perfect. I think I would be considered "godly" too, but I could give you a laundry list of my idols and common sins I fall into.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that there are not genuine needs that we have or that there are only two needs in life. My issue is that we have defined many things as "needs" when in reality they are actually "desires". And we also tend to look to people to satisfy those needs/desires rather than truly depending on Christ. I think God gave us needs/desires that will never ever be satisfied apart from him, but we so often look towards our spouse to make us feel content and satisfied and respected and appreciated. Most of what I actually "need" in my marriage really are just "wants", but my husband loves me and seeks to demonstrate love by fulfilling those desires. Most of what my husband "needs" in my marriage are "wants" but because I love him and respect him, I enjoy seeing him fulfilled and happy.
I agree with the quote from Brad Bigney (which is actually also similar to what Paul Tripp teaches in his books) that once we define something as a need, we expect our spouse to satisfy it. Something starts as a desire ("I wish"), which turns into a demand ("I will!") which turns into a need ("I must") which turns into an expectation ("You should!") which turns into disappointment ("You didn't...") and then it spirals down into punishment ("Because you didn't I will/I won't do X"). When someone fails to meet our need (say for sex or security), we fall apart, we get angry, we worry about it, we dwell on it, we get depressed, we give into temptation (we sin). When we see those reactions in ourselves to a need not being met, I believe that something has become idolatrous and taken a place in our lives that only God can fill.
I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one, no problem, no hard feelings. I've just seen too much of the opposite to agree by folks who are seeking God with all of their heart and mind, which by the way is all that they can do...God doesn't ask for more than our best...the rest his grace takes care of thank God.
ReplyDeleteI taught a Junior Achievement lesson to a classroom full of First Graders on the subject of "need" versus "want."
ReplyDeleteThe basics: we will die without having our needs met (food for nourishment and clothing/shelter for protection from the elements). All else is a want. We will not die without sexual contact, or without conversation.
However, we will die spiritually without a saving knowledge of Christ, so that's a spiritual need that transcends the physical. Believers know that, unbelievers don't have an inkling.
But all else remains a want or strong desire.
Good topic!
Can I ask you a few questions? I don't think I am really understanding what you are saying.
ReplyDelete1) How would you define idolatry in the life of a believer?
2) What would lead you to believe that you were desiring or needing something too much?
3) If you continue to struggle with a negative reaction to a need not being met, how would you explain that? Where is that reaction coming from at it's root?
Whenever we say, “Oh God I will follow you in every way but this.” I think we sound a lot like the young rich man who could achieve Godliness in every area except selling all that he had and following Christ. Let me tell you, I think the rich young man was better off after Jesus showed him that he loved riches more than God, because by doing so, it revealed his: 1) inability
ReplyDeleteto follow God in his own strength, and 2) his need for a savior. It is the same for us, whenever we say to God, “Hands off this part of my life, Buddy, I get my needs met on my terms,” we are like the young rich man saying, “Hey, I’ve done my very best, hands of the cash, Jesus.” God isn’t after our very best; he is after our very life.
What happens if your wife has a terrible accident or illness and cannot provide for your need? Will you divorce her and marry again? Will you find a mistress?
ReplyDeleteOr vice versa. What if there's a terrible accident and it's impossible to be the provider of security?
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion! Thanks for teeing it up and getting it going. This is certainly a subject worth wrestling with in the Christian life. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteElizabeth,
ReplyDeleteSorry, I want to answer your questions but am finding the correct words difficult so I'm going to try and answer but I apolagize it won't be in the format you asked. Why would you designate food and water different from other "worldly" needs...okay how about oxygen? What about clothing? All of the functions of our body, the basic ones are truly needs (sorry for TMI coming). But we have a need to urinate & #2. Women have a need to menstrate. Men (most) truly have need for a release (please understand the sex is SO much more than that and needs to happen WAY more frequently for a man to feel loved...I know you know this I'm just covering my bases). And if the body truly has other needs than food and water to function, does not the mind/heart? If safety is not a need, why can't I beat my wife? What I am saying is, even monks can't live up to the standard of needs you are setting here. Are they truly the only needs, maybe...but other than Christ every other single person who has walked the face of the earth truly has more than those three needs. I get the sentiment behind your post and I think it's great, trust in God, let Him meet your needs. I think that is awesome. But the truth is God doesn't do everything in our lives. Is He capable of it, yes? But God won't feed me this morning. He uses a farmer to grow it, a storeowner or market to have it available, my loving wife to faithfully prepare it. Now could he drop manna from heaven as he has done before, yes, but I'm not counting on it. Do I have an idol if I'm on waiting on Him drop manna from heaven, no. In fact I would probably starve to death very quickly if I just waited on that.
God gives me my wife to meet certain real needs that I have and vice versa. Now could God step in and compensate if one of us is letting Him and the other person down, most definetly. Could we learn to just suck it up and have greater faith...yes, but read your Bible. Even the most faithful of saints did not last long in that scenario.
Elizabeth, from reading your posts everyday you are way smarter than me in the academic sense and I will gladly admit it. You remind me of a theologian at times and you have no idea how much i appreciate your teaching lately on submission & respecting your husband (you, Jolene and peacefulwife are the only ones teaching this in any other way than luke warm)....thank God my wife doesn't need the lessons! The only thing I want to caution you is very few of us get to live our lives out in academia or in a book. It is very much real and it can be a huge blessing to hear just have faith and God will take care of you, but believe me when someone has tried to have faith for years, decades, etc...that is the last thing they need to hear is that there true need is not indeed a need. It's a fine line I'll admit, but an important one so that's why I'm commented.
Thanks for your teaching everyday...your profession shows and you should be proud.
This was also my thought, Julie.
ReplyDeleteIf God took away (financial) security or spouse, I would be sinning, and breaking the law, if I met those "needs". Those "needs" quickly become desires. We are called, as Christ Followers, to "walk by the Spirit, so that you will not gratify the desires of the flesh." Gal. 5:16.
God promises to supply all our needs, not our desires. He doesn't promise that you will be financially secure or secure in a marriage relationship.
Well, thanks for the compliments and encouragement...I'm really not trying to be cerebral and academic about this with unrealistic expectations of anyone. I've certainly not arrived at perfection by any stretch of the imagination. Much of what I write is as much of a reminder to myself as to anyone else. And I don't know if you've read much of the posts about my own marriage story, but I'm not writing from a position of roses and sunshine.
ReplyDeleteI do think God has called us to a much higher standard than we can wrap our minds around. In fact, what He has called us to is an impossibility without Him! We're never going to just "suck it up and have greater faith" on our own! We are to be depending on Him! Anytime we try to do that by ourselves we will fail. But no matter how little I seem to make the mark, I am always called to pursue holiness. I will be called to that for my entire life. God is never going to say to me, "Well, I guess you're just not mastering that particular struggle, so you can stop pursuing obedience now." And sometimes people do need to be told, "What you think is a need isn't really a need." Our hearts are seriously screwed up and deceive us into thinking we need things from other people that will ONLY be found in Christ! Just because someone says it's a need does not mean it is! That's why we need to be living in community so we can have others point us to the truth of Scripture.
I'm still trying to pin you down a little on one thing...not to be annoying. :) Can you give me an example of something that is *just* a desire? I can't quite figure out what you believe are true needs and if you think there are things we ask our spouses to provide for us that are just desires. Or if you think that we ask our spouses for things that can only truly be found in Christ. Because right now, it sounds like you believe we can find lasting satisfaction in our spouses?? And my question about that is: what if your wife died or was physically disabled and completely able to meet those needs? Then what? Who do you turn to? What if you died? If you are the sole person who meets her need for security, who will meet that need if you were gone? There has to be something deeper than finding satisfaction in another human.
Another question...are you a reader? If so, I would recommend the book I quoted in this post - Gospel Treason by Brad Bigney. I've read a few books on idolatry and overblown desires and this is by far the most relatable and down to earth. (My brother in law is the director of music at Brad's church so I've also had the privilege of hearing him preach in person.) And if you are more of a listener than a reader and prefer podcasts (like my husband) - Brad preached a sermon series on this. Here's the link: https://www.graceky.org/sermons/series/58-gospel-treason. My husband likes to listen to Brad's sermons when he runs because he's a passionate, fired-up guy!
ReplyDeleteElizabeth, I think there aren't any tidy answers. And I understand you trying to pin me down. I think most things are desires, I agree with you 80%. I just told you the two in my own marriage that I can tell you from hard worn, real life, call on Jesus, trust in him that are real needs. Your marriage and your reader's marriage mileage will vary. But to be honest my wife and I have discussed the possible life circumstances you are talking about and I hesitate the give the answers here as they are deeply personal. I can tell you that if I died tomorrow my wife would lose some security but in general she'd still have more security than most...because I have made sure of that. It has cost me lots of sweat, blood, tears and sacrifices but I know she and my children will be okay in any situation other than thermo nuclear war, biological disaster or a TOTAL collapse of the economy with rioting and looting going on...and even then she will be more "safe" then 99% of the others because of the choices I/we have made. The other is much more personal and I do not wish to discuss it, sorry.
ReplyDeleteGreat post!
ReplyDeleteI'm all for looking at our self proclaimed "needs" and realising they are really desires. I am all for telling others to do the same.
The problem comes when we start telling our spouse "that's not a need, it's a desire". While we are usually right, the hidden subtext is "and as such I don't have to meet it."
I don't think God would be pleased with me if I stopped at giving my wife what she needs" - I think He very much expects me to be about meeting her desires as well.
In short, see my desires as desires, not needs, and see her desires and needs as things I should give her if I can find a way.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteThat was a perfect answer-
I guess, in my mind, this is about surviving or thriving. And yes, God is the One who can help me thrive even when my spouse doesn't meet my "needs." But I think God wants us to give to each other, to meet each other's needs and/or desires so that we will "feel" loved, not just be loved. Of course, whenever we turn our pursuit of a need into an idol--through whomever or whatever--then I think God is not pleased. I see the direction you and the authors you mentioned are going and I appreciate the caution. But I am inclined to encourage couples to meet each others needs or desires, just as the Bible encourages couples to meet each others sexual needs/desires, love needs/desires, respect needs/desires. I think it's more a question of semantics than theology. Interesting stuff, Elizabeth. I appreciate the stirring of thought-provoking questions and for linking up with Wedded Wed!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I would agree with that. I'm talking about not seeking above all to have my personal needs met and to realize that most of them are desires that ultimately can only be fulfilled in Christ. But I think you're right that when we start identifying our spouse's self-identified "needs" as "desires" we can sometimes do that in an attempt to get out of trying to serve them. I think the below discussion is really more about service and sacrifice than trying to meet each other's needs.
ReplyDeleteI have found service and sacrifice is exactly what it takes to meet each other's needs so I'm stumped by that last sentence.
ReplyDeleteWe're called to serve each other, not just satisfy needs. I think the calling is higher. I treat my husband with respect, encourage him, etc not because I'm attempting to fulfill him but because Christ calls me to obedience and self-sacrificing love towards everyone.
ReplyDeleteBut isn't it really about serving each other - every believer, not just our husband - in love rather than meeting self-proclaimed "needs"? I can say that I need my husband to be transparent with me, to be engaged with the kids, to make responsible financial decisions, to encourage me, to connect emotionally with me. And in regards to children...I often feel as though I need them to obey, to follow directions, to be quiet. I feel as though I need a break. With my friends, I need them to affirm me, to encourage me, to like me. I just think we need to stop thinking about everything as a need, start serving each other unselfishly and look to Christ for our satisfaction.
ReplyDeleteThose were really rhetorical questions...I'm not particularly interested in the specific answers to all of them honestly. TMI. So, security is being defined as "financial security"? Is that really security? My husband is a very busy high volume real estate agent who has tried hard to provide financial safety for me in the event that something happens to him. No matter how hard he works and how wise he tries to be with our finances, it isn't a place I want to put my trust in. It's actually unbiblical. Even if we feel safer with good financial decisions and savings plans, our insecurity lurks within our hearts. Issues with security will come up in other areas of our life if we don't look to Christ for our ultimate security. We may say that a good financial situation is meeting our need for security but it won't last because our hope was placed in the wrong thing.
ReplyDeleteWhen you say it like that, it certainly points out the entitlement attitude we often fall into, and that, I agree, is definitely wrong. But I also feel like God created marriage and other meaningful relationships to meet needs or desires in cooperation with God working through those relationships. I think I could say that I could survive without anyone meeting my needs in my life but God, but I don't think that is how God designed my life to be lived at His best. He wants us to live out the "one anothers" that he commands us to follow all throughout the scriptures. I think we may be saying the same thing, just in different ways. :)
ReplyDeleteOne more thing, I also feel like God wants us to express faith and love in our spouses by being vulnerable enough to ask for a desire or need to be met. In that, there is trust that is being expressed in God, if our needs are not met by our spouse. But there is also the risky reaching out in love and faith that God wants us to practice with our spouses as a reflection of our love and faith in Him. Am I making sense? :) I've had a medical procedure this morning, so I'm feeling a bit incoherent this afternoon! ha!
ReplyDeleteOh I agree completely that our ultimate hope needs to be in Christ and our security in Him but I think that can be the deepest and shallowest answer at the same time. To a wife who's husband just gambled away the mortgage and you tell her that, she'll either thank you because she hasn't been doing this or slap you because she has been doing this to no avail. I've ministered to way to many street folks who were dying of disease, starvation, or exposure who tell me their faith is in Christ, when in fact some of our faith needed to be in deed. Show me your faith...Paul's great quote.
ReplyDeleteYour husband is trying though correct, that's all he can do. You have certain knowledge, beliefs, outlook on things and you take what God is teaching you and you do the best you can with it. Very little of security has to do with money, although it can help a little. I am not a rich man but I can promise you my wife could live for years and years with what I left her if I died tomorrow and only a small portion of that is due to insurance. It's complex and would take to long and quite frankly be to invasive into our privacy.
We will always have issues in our hearts and real life, that's called being on this side of heaven.
So overall I agree with you, but I again I just want to warn you to over spiritualize things otherwise we become like the people who prayed for the folks that needed break and water and clothing, instead of giving them bread, water and clothing.
I think I have an answer. It might not be THE answer, but it's something.
ReplyDeleteI legalized my first answer of what needs are: what we'll die without. Facts, all, but not what God would want from me in my marriage relationship, or in any relationship.
As I have read in several responses here, a chasm exists between "need' and "desire/want". But aren't these relationships here for us, given by God, to make us more Christlike? We are to serve as Christ served. The disciples certainly didn't NEED to have their feet washed, but Christ did that to exemplify an act of service and a servant's heart.
God refines us in our relationships, and some of what we do to serve each other may not be something we label "important", but to someone else, it is.
Financial security, sexual fulfillment, emotional connection, obedient children ... all of it lies under the umbrella of learning to serve, the refining process and obedience to God. We're learning patience, long-suffering, etc.
If we're so busy labeling what our needs vs. desires really are, and trying to quantify and qualify, we're missing the message: serve one another. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love the Lord your God with all your heart.
Don't worry, you make sense. :)
ReplyDeleteIf I was going to think of an example of what you're talking about, I'm thinking about if I said, "Hey, hon, we haven't spent much time together talking. Could you make time to do that?" In that example, in a way, I'm asking him to satisfy a desire, a desire to feel close to him. And I think that risky reaching out that you mentioned is the gospel in action, right? Stay tuned for tomorrow's post...I've got more in store about that. :)
I'm thinking about marriage being designed not so much to meet my felt needs but rather being designed as a vehicle of sanctification, if that makes sense. The whole premise of Sacred Marriage, basically.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that my husband is so much trying to meet a need that I am financially secure as much as he is being obedient to his individual calling to be a godly man by stewarding his finances.
ReplyDeleteAs far as overspiritualizing...I think we think that when we haven't really and truly grasped how much the gospel permeates our day to day life. We seem to act as though God really has nothing to do with the mundane and if we bring Him into a conversation about the mundane, it's out of place. All of life is spiritual, we just don't understand that in our humanness.
YES! Exactly! Thank you, Amy! I've got a post written and scheduled on exactly that for tomorrow. You have just made my head stop hurting to know that you get where I'm coming from. :)
ReplyDeleteI guess this is where your husband and myself are different. The things I do, I do for my wife and I believe that is what the Lord wants. You seem to think of it as him doing it for the Lord and you are the after thought????. I'm not sure which is right and I'm not sure it matters. Sorry I very much love the Lord and would die for my faith and I realize that just about every aspect of life is spiritual however it always concerns me when we over spiritualize things...and we can. I live in the Old West. Not far from me there is a place where a massacre happened upon a Wagon train (I don't much blame the Indians that did it....it was their land that was being taken but that's a different story), the people in the wagon believe the Lord was their protection and security (literally it's in the diary which was left and found), so much so they did not have any weapons along. Now I believe God cared very much about those folks, but in that journey they needed their faith and also about a dozen Winchester's and Colts, and those weapons would have been the difference between them surviving and them perishing. Now you can rightly say they are in heaven, but not before their women were raped, then killed and they were tortured and scalped. My problem is when we say we just need to have faith, it can end up a lot like that situation right there. I believe my Bible 100%, but I believe John Wayne also" I trust in God, but still keep my guns well oiled."
ReplyDeleteIt's okay to disagree and I think for the second time today I will come to that conclusion!
Yes, it's fine to disagree, however, clarification is needed.
ReplyDeleteNo, I am not the afterthought, but I am also not the ultimate reason that he does the right thing. At least, I hope I'm not. Aren't we all supposed to be living as believers FIRST and spouses SECOND?
That example of the wagon train sounds more like poor application of Scripture more than overspiritualization (is that even a word?)
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteIf I have a problem it may be I love my wife and kids as much as I love the Lord...I get that. You can call that an idol. The Lord and I have talked about that, but when you love them all enough to die for them...it's hard to know where one line or level of love starts and another starts. And I know the scripture, "whoever loves his mother, brother...." All I can say is I am trusting God to know that I love Him, and if that and His grace aren't enough that it really doesn't matter what I do...I'm a man, a physical human being that had real needs and desires...the Lord created me that way. Yes some of them are my shortcomings and sin...but you start to say you are smarter than God when we start to deny the way he made us if indeed we aren't sinning by being who he made us.
I think at some point it hurts the body more than helps it when we start to figure out parse stuff this close....we don't live by the letter of the law. This may be the difference between the male and female brain but I can't see how you can seperate the wagon train analogy from just living by faith in the rest of your life. Oh well...
Again thanks for what you are doing. Sorry to be such a hassle today!
I agree. I guess I don't feel like they are in contradiction though. I think both purposes can coexist in marriage. I think the issue is that I don't feel like "need" is a demand for my mate to meet. It's something I can request and if he doesn't meet my need, God can and will. Of course, there are some needs that only God should meet too. I think it's the attitude that is behind "need." I can demand my need be met or I can request--big difference. :)
ReplyDeleteI have taken the His Needs/Her Needs course...twice. And my husband and I both have said that the one weakness of that approach is that spouses can label something a "need" and then demand that their spouse meet it. Our true needs are few and far between.
ReplyDeleteHey, even though I write constantly about how frequent and good sex is something every Christian marriage should have, at the end of the day, I wouldn't even label that a need. Because if tomorrow, my husband or I were struck with some illness, disease, or disability and simply couldn't, we would stay married and figure out how to express love in other ways.
I've adopted a high standards/low expectations approach to marriage. I want hubby and I to shoot for the moon! Have the best marriage we can possibly have! (And all of that fabulous and frequent sex, of course.) But day-to-day, I keep my expectations down and my gratitude up. Very intriguing post!
This is an interesting discussion. I see that there is really no difference between needs and wants (desires). First, not getting what you request (whether it is a need or want) will always force some kind of revealing of what's inside your heart. Whether your need/want is: romance, sex, food, help with chores, etc. You still have to deal with the fact that you are not getting what you need/want - whether you are entitled or not - you still must deal with the ... 'no'. It might sound like I'm being flippant, but I'm not. Look at what God denied the Israelites - He denied them food "allowed them to hunger" (Deut. 8:2-3) -- to teach them a lesson.
ReplyDeleteI can't think of anything we need more than food and water; yet God denied them. God will use (deny us) anything that we have put a premium on, in order to teach us what we REALLY need -- Him.
Second, (and this is somewhat tongue in cheek). There are 3rd World 'needs' and 1st World 'needs'. I need food = 3rd world need. I need romance/sex = 1st world need. Yes, kind of cheeky. However, it does provide perspective.
That is a great approach! Basically, take responsibility for your own actions, serve your spouse and appreciate what you have. Gratitude always changes our perspective...I think we can so often get caught up in coveting relational attitudes and always wishing we had more than what we do. Being thankful is a huge way to change our perspective on the situation.
ReplyDelete"not getting what you request (whether it is a need or want) will always force some kind of revealing of what's inside your heart." Well, that's true and I hadn't even thought about it from that perspective. And your reaction to not getting what you want/need is generally more of the problem than the actual desire was. It turns into idolatry when we want something too much.
ReplyDeleteI do think there are more true needs than just food and water, salvation for one. However, a verse from 1 Peter just popped into my head..."his divine power has given us everything we NEED for life and godliness." That certainly seems to imply that we aren't lacking as much as we think we are.