A very wise man just shared with me recently that he believes that ultimately, in light of Ephesians 5:22, that women change much more than men do. In the process of Spirit-enabled submission, women must change.
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
(Ephesians 5:22 ESV)
My husband has matured in many ways, but there are ways he has not changed one bit in 25 years, and he'll be the first one to tell you that. I can tell you, also, that in response to those changes that have not happened, I have had to change in that I have to accept certain things and make changes in my own life to live with those things about him that don't change. He probably does the same thing, too, but it was this man's opinion (and he's been married 20 years, so he's not an idealistic newlywed or anything) that his wife has had to change more than he has.I'm kind of still trying to process the concept and decide if I agree or disagree. My thoughts are slightly scattered. Does submission produce more change in a woman than loving sacrificially does in a man? Would God give women an advantage like that? Does thinking this way set a wife up for self-righteously believing herself to have progressed further in the Christian life than she actually has? In any case, it was an interesting idea and I thought I would throw it out there to see what you all thought. Here are some questions to guide your thinking:
Is maturing the same as changing?
Do you think that submission naturally creates more change in wives? Why or why not?
In looking back over the years that you have been married, can you genuinely see evidence of one of you changing more than the other?
Ready, set, go.
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Getting into a debate about which is harder, submission or sacrificially loving, is an unprofitable discussion. God asks certain things of women and designed them with those expectations in mind. The same thing for men. We may think sacrificially loving is beyond our ability, but many men may think submitting is more difficult. Ultimately, it's not a competition; it's about God-given roles.
ReplyDeleteI have never considered whether or not I have changed more in 25 years. My husband would not really like if I did that. I think comparison is a dangerous game, and can build resentment. I try to be grateful for my husband's growth, period, not in if he's grown more or less than I.
I don't think maturity and change are always the same. My husband has matured a lot in 25 years. He's willing to agree that he has not changed, but there are ways he has not changed. We want our husbands to be transformed by the renewing of their minds, but we must be careful not to make it about changing to make our lives easier.
I can't speak to the bigger picture, but I think this is true in my life, and I do struggle with it. My flesh wants to continually cry, "It's not fair!!" because it is painful to change when you don't see change in another. But can I really lament the fact that God is teaching me humility and changing me to be more like Christ? If I really, truly understood that, maybe I would fight against it less than I do.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I can measure which one of us has changed more, but I do believe I think about change and progress a lot more than my husband does ... because I have time to do it. I don't work outside the home, and my time and intent at home focuses on marriage and family that much more. I don't believe I have changed more, just had more time to think about it.
ReplyDeleteIt all depends on individuals and their level of depravity or distance from the Truth, I suppose. My husband would say I have changed more than he has because he thinks I have stronger faith and have put up with a lot more of his negative behaviors. I don't agree, not because of martyrdom or inability to assess myself, but because our personal levels of faith have little to do with change. In my mind, his continual searching and finding new understanding constitutes greater change than my more constant growth.
I see it this way: submission is sacrifice for women. Loving is sacrifice for men. God knows each of us has difficulty in these areas, and he assigned them knowing they would be our hardest work in marriage. I feel I need work in the area of respect and submission and my husband agrees that he needs more love-oriented development. We're both deficient, and neither are measurable on a growth chart due to differences in thought, ability, understanding, and focus.
As to maturity vs. change, I see that greater maturity can provoke change (when a person sees, through more mature eyes, what his actions or words do and effects change from that) and I see that deciding to make a change can alter maturity, having a new perspective based on a new train of thought in an area of life/relationship. I don't think you can mature without changing, and I don't think you can change without maturing.
Are my thoughts as scattered as yours? My comment appears longer than your original post ... so sorry!
I really liked your points. I do think it is possible to change without maturing. When a woman sees her husband abandon his faith and leave his family for another woman (something I saw happen with a woman at my church) that is change without maturity. Either that, or he was faking it all along. My husband has matured with respect to taking responsibility for the fact that he is a terrible procrastinator. He's still a procrastinator, though. He knows it and we deal with it.
ReplyDeleteNot buying it. God wants us both to submit to each other as well as wives submitting to their husbands and husbands loving as Christ loves the church. As individuals in Christ we all need to grow and move forward. We do that at different rates based on our individual lives not our set in particular.
ReplyDeleteI should have clarified better, Kim -- I was assuming change in a positive sense. I don't think we make positive change without maturing. Consequently, when we sin, or make negative changes, we lose maturity ... isn't that back-sliding? I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteWhen my husband took a negative path, he distanced himself from family, from God and from reality. Definite change and horrible, grotesque (in my eyes) immaturity. I don't think there's any other way to slice it, but if someone has an example to prove me wrong, I'm interested.
Starting points, understanding, and distance already traversed on the faith path factor into everything we think, do and say. Habit and learned behavior can change the measurement, as can attitude and capacity to remain flexible.
ReplyDeleteEven a person's ability to discuss and to glean from the experience and ideas of others makes a difference in maturity and change.
They say "Women marry expecting their husband to change, and men marry expecting their wife never to change, and both are wrong.". I think in the majority, men tend to mature, but not change their fundamental persona, while women both mature and transform. Not that either is bad, only our expectations.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling from watching people is women change more. I think some of that is due to how God made them, and some if due to the sin of their husbands.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling is we should all change a great deal. Jesus wants to grow us up and prefect us, and if we don't change much then we are not growing up or being perfected very much.
As to submission, we are all supposed to be in submission to God, which should be a much bigger deal and influence than human we are submitted to.
Yes, I totally agree with your last point about all of us submitting to God. I think we forget that that is really the ultimate goal for all of us. And also, I think that marriage is one of the vehicles that God uses for our perfection (per Gary Thomas' Sacred Marriage book).
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting quote and I think it definitely described my husband and I when we first got married. For me and for my marriage, both of us have both matured and also changed our fundamental persona in many ways. Neither of us is married to the same person from 9 years ago and that's a very good thing! I can look back and see some very big changes in both our natural bents that have come about as a result of being married, trying to see things from each other's perspective and just trying to adapt to live happily together.
ReplyDeleteI liked your last point, too. First and foremost my identity is a child of God, a wife second. I am concerned that too much analysis of my marriage can cause me to be almost idolozing my marriage relationship, and that isn't good. Marriage is one vehicle for change, but I have found my children have been a much larger vehicle for my sanctification than my husband. With my children all gone away from home now, it's rather amusing to see how many of the same conflicts come up, 25 years later.
ReplyDeleteNo I don't believe that changing always is due to maturity, but with maturing there will always be change.
ReplyDeleteHusbands and wives submit and mature in different ways (not always visible by the other spouse) so I guess I'd have to say no, I don't believe that submission naturally creates more maturity in wives. The command given to wives of submission is the flip side of the same coin as the command given to husbands to love. If I say that I believe that wives are given an advantage in this regard, then I have to say that husbands have also been given an advantage over a wife in their directive - to love.
Quite honestly, I cringed a little at the expectation that we women have to change more for marriage to work. Maybe that's true generally, though. As for my own marriage, I can see many changes in both of us. Mainly, we had to let go of unrealistic expectations and learn to meet one another's needs better. If anything, I'd say that perhaps I have changed more because my daily life was more disrupted by raising children, and that shaped me.
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